Curse

chumsy · Jul 26, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Just wondering what's everyone's opinion on frenzy, although it seems like most who post war builds favor frenzy.

Also wanted to know what's the most dmg you people have seen a frenzy war take from a single hit compared to assassin.

*lemming* · Jul 27, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

PvP or PvE?

Arkantos · Jul 27, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

a PvP warrior without frenzy is like an orea without milk.

jaibas17 · Jul 27, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

frenzy = good in the right conditions

use it to spam a adrenaline spike when none is attacking you, and cancel with another stance as long as you feel the first hit

thats the correct use of frenzy

Rera · Jul 27, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Frenzy doubles incoming damage, which is equivalent to -40AL, so a warrior under Frenzy is actually more 'squishy' than an assassin.

PvP warriors need an IAS skill of some kind - Tiger's/Bestial Fury and IWAY can work as substitutes if your build can accomodate them. I personally dislike frenzy because it's limiting and dangerous - you have to take a stance cancel, you have to use it when you get hit with frenzy on, and you can't use frenzy when you're actually being targetted (meaning you're at a disadvantage against other warriors).

The larger problem is whether you're going to be able to cancel fast enough to keep yourself alive. It's a mistake to think that the opposing team won't be able to react to frenzy, especially if they're expecting you to use it. A good spike team will take down a frenzy warrior before you can even think about hitting sprint.

As for high damage - try eviscerate on a warrior that's using healing sig and frenzy at the same time (lol?). I nailed one of these the other day in RA, and it's really not pretty.

Munanko Roha · Jul 27, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

As for high damage - try eviscerate on a warrior that's using healing sig and frenzy at the same time (lol?). I nailed one of these the other day in RA, and it's really not pretty.

What kind of Warrior have you met?

20 AL ftw!

JR · Jul 27, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

A good spike team will take down a frenzy warrior before you can even think about hitting sprint.

And a good Warrior will cancel frenzy before you can think about spiking him.

In the same way good Monks can pre-prot spike targets through being observant, a good Warrior can easily cancel Frenzy. Against a spike that is harder to predict just don't use it.

Rera · Jul 27, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

I think the situation of pre-protting spike targets is somewhat different than a spontaneous spike against a warrior. In the case of pre-prot, the enemy spike team is setting up for the spike, and they're doing it at their pace, which can sometimes give the spike away. In the case of the Frenzy warrior, the spike is on reaction. They're not setting up at their pace, they're waiting for you to hit Frenzy, and the moment they see it, you go down. I agree that in a controlled GvG/Halls setting you'll get away with Frenzy most of the time, but I'm still convinced that you'll get punished hard eventually.

You recommend not using Frenzy against an unpredictable spike, which outlines the crux of the problem: Frenzy is limiting. You cannot use it while you're being targetted. Let's move from a GvG setting to arenas, AB, or something similarly chaotic. You simply can't use Frenzy a lot of the time in these situations, because there's usually someone hitting you.

Frenzy is still a good skill, and you should bring it when you're not W/R or IWAY. I personally prefer running /R for Tiger's Fury, as I can keep IAS up constantly without worrying about whether I'm being targetted or not.

Ismoke · Jul 27, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Frenzy + tigers stance ftw!!!

jummeth · Jul 27, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Frenzy is a little more than -40AL because all damage is doubled, even armour ignoring damage.

However Frenzy is such a good skill that without it, you are simply less effective. If you fear you can't control it, practice more.

SnipiousMax · Jul 27, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

I'd still contend that, used properly, Frenzy is not a bad PvE skill either. Neither is Flurry, or Tigers Stance for that matter. Its just a matter of understanding your limits.

I pwnd U · Jul 28, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Both Frenzy and Flurry are good skills but have their drawbacks. Frenzy really kills your AL, while flurry decreases your damage. Really its just up too you what you want, either decreased damage or decreased AL. Tiger stance is good if you are a W/R but otherwise its between frenzy and flurry. I personally take flurry since when i use it, i use it with my W/E that has conjure flame so that negates most of the damage lost. But its really situational as too what you want to use. Neither are bad skills, they just have thier drawbacks.

SnipiousMax · Jul 28, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by I pwnd U

Tiger stance is good if you are a W/R ...

Tigers Stance is a Warrior skill.

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Jul 28, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Tiger stance aint so great, imo, has long recharge and imo, there is tons of ways you can fail to hit a target while warring in pvp, also ive shut down a fwe mesmers with frenzy when they used distortion , because they kept using it more and more, and i kept hitting them more often making them lose more energy

Ismoke · Jul 28, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

use tigers to cancel frenzy, two IAS's really dishes out some dps and charges adrenal skills rather quickly with a furious mod. Ive really enjoyed this combo.

Symbol · Jul 28, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

You recommend not using Frenzy against an unpredictable spike, which outlines the crux of the problem: Frenzy is limiting. You cannot use it while you're being targetted. Let's move from a GvG setting to arenas, AB, or something similarly chaotic. You simply can't use Frenzy a lot of the time in these situations, because there's usually someone hitting you. For instance, Frenzy puts you at significant disadvantage when facing enemy warriors (and there are always tons of those).

Even in the arenas or AB you shouldn't be duelling other warriors. And if for some reason you have to you there are three scenarios:
1) The enemy warrior doesn't carry IAS. Most common in RA and ABs, since self proclaimed "tanks" (read: idiots) abound. No disadvantage
2) The enemy warrior carries frenzy. No disadvantage.
3) The enemy warrior carries tiger stance/tiger's fury. Rare, but it does happen. Avoid duelling these people as a frenzy user, unless you're sure you can beat them without IAS.

Quote:

Frenzy is still a good skill, and you should bring it when you're not W/R or IWAY. I personally prefer running /R for Tiger's Fury, as I can keep IAS up constantly without worrying about whether I'm being targetted or not.

Tiger's fury is even more limited than frenzy IMO.

* disables non-attack skills, causing adrenal skills to lose charge. This means no rush (bad!) and no fast switching to run speed stance in case your target starts kiting
* 10 sec recharge means you need significant attribute investment to have it up most of the time
* 10E cost limits you to using zealous weaponry
* Limits you to ranger secondary which is mostly crap for a warrior.

IMO the combination of frenzy + rush is so much more flexible than tiger's fury + sprint or what have you.

majoho · Jul 29, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Tigers Stance is a Warrior skill.

Probably meant Tiger's fury (which is basically the same thing)

i Valinor · Jul 30, 2006, 08:02 AM // 08:02

its easy if your hacking at a soft target use frenzy. get the quick adren. charge. if you think your going to be hit a a nasty ele attack, sin or even another warrior dont frenzy or use a cover stance to end frenzy.

Sarevok Thordin · Jul 30, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Frenzy DOES leave you open to attack, a warrior or even ASSASSIN at the right place at the right time can utterly destroy the warrior doing it.

Also, Tiger's Stance is a viable skill if you use it with "On your knees!". Sure you may lose all adren but if you are using a low adren elite attack like Quivering Blade (W/N only)

I did this in RA last night, got to 8 conseq wins with it.

chumsy · Jul 31, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Guess everyone loves their frenzy.

Personally I could never get into it - even as a warrior I find myself as #1 or #2 target when pvping.